Is This Your Society

[Barrie Shutt]

Do you recognise this society? some of you might.

a message i received today from a young lady.

I was a complete beginner 2 years ago, so joined the BLANK Budgie Society hoping to learn something. How wrong can you be. I have had nothing but rudeness whoever I have asked for advice, (with the exception of one man - ), culminating in being told to leave the society for asking advice.I had in any case not intended to renew my membership, as I have nothing in common with anyone there. Are all budgie clubs the same or is it just BLANK which has ignorant rude and unhelpful members? I had heard bad reports about it from local pet shops. No wonder very few new people are coming into the hobby. I have also been disgusted at the condtions in which some members keep their budgies, particularly the overcrowding, all in an effort to win a prize. Pathetic!! But it gives the hobby a really bad name. My only concern is for the welfare of the budgies.

I AM POSITIVE WE HAVE OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAD THE SAME STORY TO TELL ABOUT THIS SOCIETY.

I WILL PUBLISH BOTH THE SOCIETIES NAME AND THE MEMBERS NAME AFTER I SPEAK TO THE SOCIETY.

[Lorna & Alan]

I am very apprehensive about going joining my local CBS, although I know I need to go along and give it a try to see what they can offer me and also what I can offer in terms of ' support involvement' I am worried it is going to be 'closed shop' and cliquie in that a) I am knew to the area so have no family connections here, b) have no previous connections with fancy cage birds and c) have no contacts - family or otherwise in the above. My fears are also exacerbated by the fact that on the club night my OH works overtime so I will be totally on my own as an absolute beginner :eek:

Any advice offered would be grateful accepted but I guess the bottom line is to go and see what it is like. I am hoping that a cage bird club will be better than a specialised budgie club as hopefully they are already quite diverse in their approach to newbies and offer something for allcomers :)

[Barrie Shutt]

I am very apprehensive about going joining my local CBS, although I know I need to go along and give it a try to see what they can offer me and also what I can offer in terms of ' support involvement' I am worried it is going to be 'closed shop' and cliquie in that a) I am knew to the area so have no family connections here, b) have no previous connections with fancy cage birds and c) have no contacts - family or otherwise in the above. My fears are also exacerbated by the fact that on the club night my OH works overtime so I will be totally on my own as an absolute beginner :eek:

Any advice offered would be grateful accepted but I guess the bottom line is to go and see what it is like. I am hoping that a cage bird club will be better than a specialised budgie club as hopefully they are already quite diverse in their approach to newbies and offer something for allcomers :)

Lorna have a word with Dolly who did join a local club and went on to win her first rosette there.

[Lorna & Alan]

Thanks Barry - I think Dolly is in the Essex area whilst I am on the Oxford/Berks area. It is so much easier if you know someone already in the hobby - thats how I first started in poultry and of course you are immediately accepted - even though my own poultry at first were utlity I soon made the transition to quality show birds with support and hard work. Not going to be easy but I will certainly give it a try and see how it goes.
Obviously I am intending to show exhibition and not pets LOL. Hopefully my attitude towards learning more will shine through and I will make new friends there and the young ladys' experience that you mention will be a relatively rare one - I shall keep you posted :)

[Ed Freel]

So Sad

Whether some one is a newby non local type so what I know some area's where they treat non locals like sh!!!! even day trippers & holiday makers the same

All I know is I have never met this approach ever whether dogs or birds r on holiday I have even been told dont go in that pub I went in no bother made welcome Maybe sometimes its the approach of the stranger body language wise I just dont know


Ed

[kathy]

Do you recognise this society? some of you might.

a message i received today from a young lady.

I was a complete beginner 2 years ago, so joined the BLANK Budgie Society hoping to learn something. How wrong can you be. I have had nothing but rudeness whoever I have asked for advice, (with the exception of one man - ), culminating in being told to leave the society for asking advice.I had in any case not intended to renew my membership, as I have nothing in common with anyone there. Are all budgie clubs the same or is it just BLANK which has ignorant rude and unhelpful members? I had heard bad reports about it from local pet shops. No wonder very few new people are coming into the hobby. I have also been disgusted at the condtions in which some members keep their budgies, particularly the overcrowding, all in an effort to win a prize. Pathetic!! But it gives the hobby a really bad name. My only concern is for the welfare of the budgies.

I AM POSITIVE WE HAVE OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAD THE SAME STORY TO TELL ABOUT THIS SOCIETY.

I WILL PUBLISH BOTH THE SOCIETIES NAME AND THE MEMBERS NAME AFTER I SPEAK TO THE SOCIETY.

It is a sad world for all animals in which they are bred, bred , bred and kept in conditions of sickening cruelty and half the people make out they like them yet THEY DONT and are not interested. All they got in their eyes is Pound signs. Lets send them here and there export over the world for any tom dick and harry to start breeding agen and giving them out all obver the place to people who just use and abuse them and dont even know what to do

[Simon Devaney]

Do you recognise this society? some of you might.

a message i received today from a young lady.

I was a complete beginner 2 years ago, so joined the BLANK Budgie Society hoping to learn something. How wrong can you be. I have had nothing but rudeness whoever I have asked for advice, (with the exception of one man - ), culminating in being told to leave the society for asking advice.I had in any case not intended to renew my membership, as I have nothing in common with anyone there. Are all budgie clubs the same or is it just BLANK which has ignorant rude and unhelpful members? I had heard bad reports about it from local pet shops. No wonder very few new people are coming into the hobby. I have also been disgusted at the condtions in which some members keep their budgies, particularly the overcrowding, all in an effort to win a prize. Pathetic!! But it gives the hobby a really bad name. My only concern is for the welfare of the budgies.

I AM POSITIVE WE HAVE OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAD THE SAME STORY TO TELL ABOUT THIS SOCIETY.

I WILL PUBLISH BOTH THE SOCIETIES NAME AND THE MEMBERS NAME AFTER I SPEAK TO THE SOCIETY.

Barrie, I don’t want to sound like I am always criticising but reading the above letter I would like to raise a few points, The complete beginner that you are referring to is obviously a pet keeper and it sounds like she has gone into this "BLANK" club with intent to stir trouble, fancy coming into the exhibition side of the hobby and attacking the conditions of the members bird rooms no wonder she has rubbed the members up the wrong way, she was obviously welcomed into the club in the first place to be invited to view those terrible bird sheds

In my opinion you are trying to open up old wounds from a couple of weeks ago and start another pet v exhibition debate, if the above is true name and shame don’t hide behind "Blank" comments

[Barrie Shutt]

Barrie, I don’t want to sound like I am always criticising but reading the above letter I would like to raise a few points, The complete beginner that you are referring to is obviously a pet keeper and it sounds like she has gone into this "BLANK" club with intent to stir trouble, fancy coming into the exhibition side of the hobby and attacking the conditions of the members bird rooms no wonder she has rubbed the members up the wrong way, she was obviously welcomed into the club in the first place to be invited to view those terrible bird sheds

In my opinion you are trying to open up old wounds from a couple of weeks ago and start another pet v exhibition debate, if the above is true name and shame don’t hide behind "Blank" comments

have you heard of the freedom of speech it applies to me also simon.

the two blanks are the name of the society,is it yours ?

that post was sent to me and i said i will speak to both parties before passing any comment.

are you saying that beginner breeders are just pet keepers ? or do you know something i don't.

i have phone numbers of two members of this BLANK society and i did leave messages.

your opinion is only that simon an opinion.

your post about sneaks when you said WE know who they are - i asked you who WE WAS BUT YOU NEVER REPLIED,why?

[Simon Devaney]

I am very apprehensive about going joining my local CBS, although I know I need to go along and give it a try to see what they can offer me and also what I can offer in terms of ' support involvement' I am worried it is going to be 'closed shop' and cliquie in that a) I am knew to the area so have no family connections here, b) have no previous connections with fancy cage birds and c) have no contacts - family or otherwise in the above. My fears are also exacerbated by the fact that on the club night my OH works overtime so I will be totally on my own as an absolute beginner :eek:

Any advice offered would be grateful accepted but I guess the bottom line is to go and see what it is like. I am hoping that a cage bird club will be better than a specialised budgie club as hopefully they are already quite diverse in their approach to newbies and offer something for allcomers :)

Lorna, I would join your local club and I am sure you will be made very welcome indeed, just like everything else in life you have to make the first move yourself, if you go along to your local club and hide away in the corner you will get nowhere, go along introduce yourself discuss your birds, your aims for the future and you will soon be making the tea (joke;)) go in all guns blazing like Mrs X above and they will soon be calling you a cab

[Simon Devaney]

Barrie, I respect the fact that you have the backing of the pet side of the hobby but posting so called letters like the one above are going to get peoples back up and I for one will stand and fight my corner if it is something that I feel deserves fighting for

I can assure you that at our society new members are welcomed with open arms as I am sure they would be at most if not all the other clubs but for a new member to go in and start criticising the living conditions and the chasing of rosettes as pathetic I can see why there was an instant dislike

As for you bringing up a comment about “sneaks” that is just in my nature not to trust anyone that hides in the shadows, yes we live in a world of free speech and yes there are little buttons you can press to hide in the shadows but unless you have something to hide why not come out in the open

[Barrie Shutt]

I do not know the story behind this ladies post but THOSE WERE HER WORDS NOT MINE.

[Simon Devaney]

It is a sad world for all animals in which they are bred, bred , bred and kept in conditions of sickening cruelty and half the people make out they like them yet THEY DONT and are not interested. All they got in their eyes is Pound signs. Lets send them here and there export over the world for any tom dick and harry to start breeding agen and giving them out all obver the place to people who just use and abuse them and dont even know what to do

Kathy, you honestly have not got a clue what the exhibition side of the hobby is like have you:(

[Simon Devaney]

I do not know the story behind this ladies post but THOSE WERE HER WORDS NOT MINE.

Name and shame Bas, if you honestly believe what is in YOUR first post NAME & SHAME

Or are you now backtracking and HIDING behind Mrs X

[Lorna & Alan]

Lorna, I would join your local club and I am sure you will be made very welcome indeed, just like everything else in life you have to make the first move yourself, if you go along to your local club and hide away in the corner you will get nowhere, go along introduce yourself discuss your birds, your aims for the future and you will soon be making the tea (joke;)) go in all guns blazing like Mrs X above and they will soon be calling you a cab
Thanks Simon, definitely going after Christmas. Bird room wont be ready till Spring - 10x8 insulated shed to house indoor flight and cages, with a separate 6x3 outdoor avairy with its own insulated night box running alongside and it is a genuine 'start from scratch affair'. Wont have any birds to discuss at first but know that blues and greys interest me - hope to learn more and not in a rush to jump in up to my armpits LOL:)
I agree you have to go into a new club with the right attitude and will just see how it goes for myself- I am sure they will be welcoming - especially when I hand in my special butter icing chocolate cake for tea break- tea made by the men of course ;)

[Barrie Shutt]

Name and shame Bas, if you honestly believe what is in YOUR first post NAME & SHAME

Or are you now backtracking and HIDING behind Mrs X

i did not say i believe it simon , i did say i would speak to both parties,was it sent to me as a wind up or a cry for help? i do not know.

i am not interested in your last foolish comment

[Simon Devaney]

Thanks Simon, definitely going after Christmas. Bird room wont be ready till Spring - 10x8 insulated shed to house indoor flight and cages, with a separate 6x3 outdoor avairy with its own insulated night box running alongside and it is a genuine 'start from scratch affair'. Wont have any birds to discuss at first but know that blues and greys interest me - hope to learn more and not in a rush to jump in up to my armpits LOL:)
I agree you have to go into a new club with the right attitude and will just see how it goes for myself- I am sure they will be welcoming - especially when I hand in my special butter icing chocolate cake for tea break- tea made by the men of course ;)

Men don’t make the Tea, we scare of all the new members so that we can keep the world of exhibition budgerigars just for ourselves:D

All joking apart go along and enjoy, ask loads of questions and get involved

[Ed Freel]

Time Out

I see we have a go at the Exhibition Squad again

I think if some one wants to post anything that cannot be substatiated it should be left where it belongs in the waste bin

Im sick of hearing the crap The Exhibion side breed for breedings sake or just to win a ribbon

If someone joins a society like I did I was accepted I was helped etc etc what more do you want

A naffed off Person sick of reading Gossip

[Lorna & Alan]

Freedom of speech also means that all opinions can be aired and I actually like to hear the negative and the positives. Even before Barries post this morning I have felt a bit anxious about getting involved on the exhibition side. Some people may think 'silly middle aged woman who has only kept pet budgies before and thinks she can breed for the show bench - should stick to keeping pets etc ' As I said before - owning pet budgies have actually got me interested in becoming involved in the fancy - surely a good thing and not to be laughed at or seen as a put down ? I have never fully understood the antagonism between pet and exhibition - they are two different types. But the fact is the pet budgie is responsible for making people aware of the fancy - people like myself. I dont want to be laughed at or belittled at at a club because I own two pets and keep them in the house - Im sure many breeders have a pet budgie at home. I also dont want to defend my position of wanting to be involved in the exhibition side - its my choice isnt it and surely I can be accepted into the fancy for the person that I am, my ambitions and desire to learn rather than my experience of having only kept pet budgies. Its like a stigma attached and I am a little frightened about that - not about the young ladies experience that Barrie posted. True or made up - regardless of hearing about it - I will make my own opinions. So thank you Barrie for posting it, the knowledge had not put me off at all and it is informative to hear all points of view.

[Simon Devaney]

i did not say i believe it simon , i did say i would speak to both parties,was it sent to me as a wind up or a cry for help? i do not know.

i am not interested in your last foolish comment

Barrie, you just seem to enjoy starting hot debates and then back track when challenged, just make your mind up which side of the fence you are on

[Barrie Shutt]

Barrie, you just seem to enjoy starting hot debates and then back track when challenged, just make your mind up which side of the fence you are on

simon look at the guestbook on my web site.

WE are not amused but should i only post about one side of the hobby? it appears so.

Ed you appear to have a problem , where did i mention gossip and am i correct in saying that you and this lady are of equal staus in exhibition budgerigars.

lorna i started off with pet budgies.

my thread is about helping people and if they speak i believe we should listening to them,then perhaps i'm wrong.

[Barrie Shutt]

Barrie, you just seem to enjoy starting hot debates and then back track when challenged, just make your mind up which side of the fence you are on

i don't sit side saddle i have one leg over each side of the fence.

[Simon Devaney]

Some people may think 'silly middle aged woman who has only kept pet budgies before and thinks she can breed for the show bench

I have never fully understood the antagonism between pet and exhibition - they are two different types. But the fact is the pet budgie is responsible for making people aware of the fancy - people like myself. I dont want to be laughed at or belittled at at a club because I own two pets and keep them in the house.

Just to clarify the two points raised by yourself, I don’t think anyone associated with any budgerigar or cage bird club would see you as a "silly middle aged woman who has kept pet budgies" nor would they belittle you because you have "pets in the house" I like a bit of leg pull but I can assure you that is all it is

You have been given the wrong impression of the club side of the hobby by someone trying to cause trouble between the two factions to gain popularity for himself from the pet keepers, for whatever reason that is you will have to ask him that yourself maybe this is the reason why he is a member of a dying club

Please go along to your local club as I am sure you will find it the total opposite to what picture has been painted and maybe one day you might just win that rosette that we are all desperate to get our hands on

[Mick Freakley]

Maybe Barrie it would have been better for you to get both sides of the story before publishing any, I have some sympathy with Simon on this one. It does seem that you post some very negative posts at times, especially when you say you want to promote our hobby. Let me ask you a simple question, what was the point in posting this thread with only half the information?

I have to say in all my time in this hobby, I have NEVER seen anyone made unwelcome, I have heard stories of folk who feel they have, maybe because everyone did not fall all over them they feel unwelcome. What I have met and seen, is some right miserable sods, who were new beginners, and I have to say I was glad they desided not to stay in the hobby.

As Simon say's, if this person has been invited to aviaries, then she must have been made welcome. As to overcrowding, is she qualified to make a comment like that. Lets have some facts for a change. And please stop trying to show the hobby in a bad light

[Ed Freel]

[

Ed you appear to have a problem ,

I dont have a problem

Once again unsubstanciated garbage

If There is stuff going like this as mentioned it should be addressed in a correct & proper manner

Not posted on a website

Lately on this forum all that seems to be going on is complete & utter stirring

I for one am sick of it


Take my comment any way you want and report me as if I care

[Mick Freakley]

It is a sad world for all animals in which they are bred, bred , bred and kept in conditions of sickening cruelty and half the people make out they like them yet THEY DONT and are not interested. All they got in their eyes is Pound signs. Lets send them here and there export over the world for any tom dick and harry to start breeding agen and giving them out all obver the place to people who just use and abuse them and dont even know what to do

Kathy, how can you make a generalisation like this. Can you please explain what you base this generalisation on. Do you realy think only pet ownners care for their birds, how much are they now, a fiver. Exhibition budgerigars are cared for like you would not imagine. I find your post very offensive and would ask you to explain yourself properly, without all this emotive rubbish. By the way, I have never exported a bird in my life.

[Lorna & Alan]

Please read my post very carefully - at no time in this thread did I say I was not going to go to my local club. Please do not use me as a pawn to show someone else up in a bad light . My opinions formed are indeed my own based on my own experiences and will not be influenced by Barries post ( this is the second time I have said this so please take note !!!)
During the last debate on pets it became quite heavy for me because of the exhibition posts that were down on pet owners ( whether in jest or not, the attitude was there) I said at the time that this attitude made me wary of what to expect at clubs towards newcomers like myself with no background in the hobby ( please feel free to look back the thread). My posts were not read properly then either as I never felt pet budgies and exhibition ever had any similarities and have only been interested in showing exhibition types in the future. I did agree however that the pet classes ( strictly for pets) would bring more interest to the fancy.
Why do we have to have two sides - I do not understand this ? As to the starting post on this thread - this is a persons opinion -let it be expressed and move on, but as I said please do not use me as a pawn in this . I am a pet owner interested and starting into exhibition budgies - and I will live and learn from all of you wonderful people who keep budgies - end of :cool:

[Keri]

This original post is on Barries website under guestbook, it is displayed publicly so anybody could read it should they wish too. I think perhaps Barrie is trying to get an answer for the lady and this was a way of doing that?

the lady in question may well have made herself unwelcome as there are always 2 sides to a story but was it not worth investigation and seeing if someone could shed some light on the matter?

I'm just trying to see both sides here, perhaps it has been taken a little bit too personally I'm sure offence was not meant. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.;)

To do with Kathys post I'm not sure she was talking about Budgies specifically but perhaps the pet trade as a whole, I know how well forum members look after their exhibition stock it's plain to see from your photo's and the enjoyment you gain and how willing you are to share knowledge and experiences.

[John Zerafa]

This original post is on Barries website under guestbook, it is displayed publicly so anybody could read it should they wish too. I think perhaps Barrie is trying to get an answer for the lady and this was a way of doing that?

the lady in question may well have made herself unwelcome as there are always 2 sides to a story but was it not worth investigation and seeing if someone could shed some light on the matter?

I'm just trying to see both sides here, perhaps it has been taken a little bit too personally I'm sure offence was not meant. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.;)

To do with Kathys post I'm not sure she was talking about Budgies specifically but perhaps the pet trade as a whole, I know how well forum members look after their exhibition stock it's plain to see from your photo's and the enjoyment you gain and how willing you are to share knowledge and experiences.

You make some good points Keri. We all have to keep it in mind that there are two sides to EVERY story. There are a few posts from both points of view that could have been worded differently.

[Barrie Shutt]

well said keri and we will answer your queries if it does not include anything of a negative nature to budgerigars.

You have been given the wrong impression of the club side of the hobby by someone trying to cause trouble between the two factions to gain popularity for himself from the pet keepers, for whatever reason that is you will have to ask him that yourself maybe this is the reason why he is a member of a dying club ( a quote by simon.) what more could i expect from our simon.

Mick why does everyone read things in a negative manner,why did no one say come and join our society,why did no say join our forum? why does simon think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders?why all the excitement over a plea for help from a budgerigar breeder,perhaps you are all right and we should ignore people.

the thread was posted to make people aware this happens but i get the drift i can post if its nice goody positive things.

[Mick Freakley]

Please read my post very carefully - at no time in this thread did I say I was not going to go to my local club. Please do not use me as a pawn to show someone else up in a bad light . My opinions formed are indeed my own based on my own experiences and will not be influenced by Barries post ( this is the second time I have said this so please take note !!!)
During the last debate on pets it became quite heavy for me because of the exhibition posts that were down on pet owners ( whether in jest or not, the attitude was there) I said at the time that this attitude made me wary of what to expect at clubs towards newcomers like myself with no background in the hobby ( please feel free to look back the thread). My posts were not read properly then either as I never felt pet budgies and exhibition ever had any similarities and have only been interested in showing exhibition types in the future. I did agree however that the pet classes ( strictly for pets) would bring more interest to the fancy.
Why do we have to have two sides - I do not understand this ? As to the starting post on this thread - this is a persons opinion -let it be expressed and move on, but as I said please do not use me as a pawn in this . I am a pet owner interested and starting into exhibition budgies - and I will live and learn from all of you wonderful people who keep budgies - end of :cool:

I assume you are replying to Simon here Lorna?

[Barrie Shutt]

keri i have spent all day contacting members of this society and also trying to get in touch with valerie to try and arrange a meet with a member that may help her.

i could have ignored it as some people would and that would be one more less in the hobby.

[Mick Freakley]

This original post is on Barries website under guestbook, it is displayed publicly so anybody could read it should they wish too. I think perhaps Barrie is trying to get an answer for the lady and this was a way of doing that?

the lady in question may well have made herself unwelcome as there are always 2 sides to a story but was it not worth investigation and seeing if someone could shed some light on the matter?

I'm just trying to see both sides here, perhaps it has been taken a little bit too personally I'm sure offence was not meant. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.;)

To do with Kathys post I'm not sure she was talking about Budgies specifically but perhaps the pet trade as a whole, I know how well forum members look after their exhibition stock it's plain to see from your photo's and the enjoyment you gain and how willing you are to share knowledge and experiences.

I for one do not look at Barrie's website, and if it was he should maybe have made it clear, is there more info on there than the thread he started. As for Kathey, I will wait for her reply.

[Keri]

there is more information Mick and I realised a few posts back when Barrie said view my guestbook to Simon (I think)that it must of originated from there. I am notoriously nosey so had to have a look;)

post 20 is where it is stated have a look at my guestbook.... Barrie perhaps you could have stated originally that this was from your guestbook so people could have looked and responded accordingly thereby stopping accusations of troublemaking etc... again just a thought.:)

[Barrie Shutt]

Barrie Shutt:
VALERIE please e-mail me
barrieshutt@aol.com 9 hours ago
195.93.21.x
valerie cotton:
I was a complete beginner 2 years ago, so joined the Leeds Budgie Society hoping to learn something. How wrong can you be. I have had nothing but rudeness whoever I have asked for advice, (with the exception of one man - Mr Beevers), culminating in being told to leave the society for asking advice.I had in any case not intended to renew my membership, as I have nothing in common with anyone there. Are all budgie clubs the same or is it just Leeds which has ignorant rude and unhelpful members? I had heard bad reports about it from local pet shops. No wonder very few new people are coming into the hobby. I have also been disgusted at the condtions in which some members keep their budgies, particularly the overcrowding, all in an effort to win a prize. Pathetic!! But it gives the hobby a really bad name. My only concern is for the welfare of the budgies. 13 hours ago
86.153.205.x

the contents off my web site guest book , the only thing i did not print was the members and the societies name

[Keri]

keri i have spent all day contacting members of this society and also trying to get in touch with valerie to try and arrange a meet with a member that may help her.

i could have ignored it as some people would and that would be one more less in the hobby.

I know you mean well Barrie but feelings run high and perhaps in hindsight it could have been more delicately handled:)

[Barrie Shutt]

i think AL you should close this thread as it appears to be upsetting some members.

[Simon Devaney]

well said keri and we will answer your queries if it does not include anything of a negative nature to budgerigars.

You have been given the wrong impression of the club side of the hobby by someone trying to cause trouble between the two factions to gain popularity for himself from the pet keepers, for whatever reason that is you will have to ask him that yourself maybe this is the reason why he is a member of a dying club ( a quote by simon.) what more could i expect from our simon.

Mick why does everyone read things in a negative manner,why did no one say come and join our society,why did no say join our forum? why does simon think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders?why all the excitement over a plea for help from a budgerigar breeder,perhaps you are all right and we should ignore people.

the thread was posted to make people aware this happens but i get the drift i can post if its nice goody positive things.

Barrie, Our Simon:confused: i am not your anything. just fed up of reading posts where you are trying to drum up supporters for your personal fan base, maybe when you feel the time is right and you have sufficient numbers backing you will re-introduce the £20 subscription service you were offering a while back

Can you please explain where and why i think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders:confused:

[Mick Freakley]

well said keri and we will answer your queries if it does not include anything of a negative nature to budgerigars.

You have been given the wrong impression of the club side of the hobby by someone trying to cause trouble between the two factions to gain popularity for himself from the pet keepers, for whatever reason that is you will have to ask him that yourself maybe this is the reason why he is a member of a dying club ( a quote by simon.) what more could i expect from our simon.

Mick why does everyone read things in a negative manner,why did no one say come and join our society,why did no say join our forum? why does simon think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders?why all the excitement over a plea for help from a budgerigar breeder,perhaps you are all right and we should ignore people.

the thread was posted to make people aware this happens but i get the drift i can post if its nice goody positive things.

I note again you fail to answer my questions but come back with questions of your own:(

1 Mick why does everyone read things in a negative manner
Please point me at a positive in your post

2 why did no one say come and join our society,why did no say join our forum?
Have you tried talking to the invisible man/woman?

3 why all the excitement over a plea for help from a budgerigar breeder,perhaps you are all right and we should ignore people.
Details of said breeder would aid us to do this.

4 the thread was posted to make people aware this happens but i get the drift i can post if its nice goody positive things

You keep telling us this, but fail to give any facts:(

[Mick Freakley]

there is more information Mick and I realised a few posts back when Barrie said view my guestbook to Simon (I think)that it must of originated from there. I am notoriously nosey so had to have a look;)

post 20 is where it is stated have a look at my guestbook.... Barrie perhaps you could have stated originally that this was from your guestbook so people could have looked and responded accordingly thereby stopping accusations of troublemaking etc... again just a thought.:)

Thank you Keri, Barrie likes to think he knows someting we dont, maybe it helps him feel superior:(

[Simon Devaney]

Please read my post very carefully - at no time in this thread did I say I was not going to go to my local club. Please do not use me as a pawn to show someone else up in a bad light . My opinions formed are indeed my own based on my own experiences and will not be influenced by Barries post ( this is the second time I have said this so please take note !!!)
During the last debate on pets it became quite heavy for me because of the exhibition posts that were down on pet owners ( whether in jest or not, the attitude was there) I said at the time that this attitude made me wary of what to expect at clubs towards newcomers like myself with no background in the hobby ( please feel free to look back the thread). My posts were not read properly then either as I never felt pet budgies and exhibition ever had any similarities and have only been interested in showing exhibition types in the future. I did agree however that the pet classes ( strictly for pets) would bring more interest to the fancy.
Why do we have to have two sides - I do not understand this ? As to the starting post on this thread - this is a persons opinion -let it be expressed and move on, but as I said please do not use me as a pawn in this . I am a pet owner interested and starting into exhibition budgies - and I will live and learn from all of you wonderful people who keep budgies - end of :cool:

Lorna, i presume you mean me when you refer to "Please do not use me as a pawn" can you please point me in the direction of where i have, all i said is please join your local club and get involved

Ya more like a flaming lobster than a prawn anyway;)
SNAP,SNAP,SNAP:D

[Barrie Shutt]

i thought a positive was we had a lady that wants to join a society that would help and encourage her to breed and exhibit budgerigars.

2. is she not on this forum?

3. i like to offer help.

4. i must now start giving facts.

[Mick Freakley]

Barrie Shutt:
VALERIE please e-mail me
barrieshutt@aol.com 9 hours ago
195.93.21.x
valerie cotton:
I was a complete beginner 2 years ago, so joined the Leeds Budgie Society hoping to learn something. How wrong can you be. I have had nothing but rudeness whoever I have asked for advice, (with the exception of one man - Mr Beevers), culminating in being told to leave the society for asking advice.I had in any case not intended to renew my membership, as I have nothing in common with anyone there. Are all budgie clubs the same or is it just Leeds which has ignorant rude and unhelpful members? I had heard bad reports about it from local pet shops. No wonder very few new people are coming into the hobby. I have also been disgusted at the condtions in which some members keep their budgies, particularly the overcrowding, all in an effort to win a prize. Pathetic!! But it gives the hobby a really bad name. My only concern is for the welfare of the budgies. 13 hours ago
86.153.205.x

the contents off my web site guest book , the only thing i did not print was the members and the societies name

Did you point her in the direction of this forum Barrie? Has she joined? Why did you not post this info in your original post? Do you have her email address? I will contact her and the Chairman of Leeds BS tonight and provide both sides of the story if you provide me with the required information.

[dan levington]

:confused:I used to think this forum was a great place for a bit crack and to find out about budgies and a place to post pictures, but lately I have been reading to much "bickering" and am considering whether it is a good place to visit or not :(

It is afterall suposed to be enjoying having a hobby:confused:

[Mick Freakley]

i thought a positive was we had a lady that wants to join a society that would help and encourage her to breed and exhibit budgerigars.

2. is she not on this forum? I DO NOT KNOW IS SHE?

3. i like to offer help. Where have I said to gnore people?
4. i must now start giving facts. Well it does help a conversation:(

It would help if you posted the questions so folk could see what you were replying to. Can you not see how you get folks backs up?

[Barrie Shutt]

Did you point her in the direction of this forum Barrie? Has she joined? Why did you not post this info in your original post? Do you have her email address? I will contact her and the Chairman of Leeds BS tonight and provide both sides of the story if you provide me with the required information.

i am doing that mick getting both parties together just waiting for valeries e-mail address.

[Mick Freakley]

:confused:I used to think this forum was a great place for a bit crack and to find out about budgies and a place to post pictures, but lately I have been reading to much "bickering" and am considering whether it is a good place to visit or not :(

It is afterall suposed to be enjoying having a hobby:confused:

I think Dan this is another generalisation. If you look at the number of posts on the hobby ie, budgies, judging, etc you will see they far outway the (bickering) posts as you call them. Surely we have the right to reply if something is written we feel unfair?

[Mick Freakley]

i am doing that mick getting both parties together just waiting for valeries e-mail address.

Please answer at least one of my questions Barrie, it is only good manners

[Barrie Shutt]

I think Dan this is another generalisation. If you look at the number of posts on the hobby ie, budgies, judging, etc you will see they far outway the (bickering) posts as you call them. Surely we have the right to reply if something is written we feel unfair?

i agree mick a debate is always good but easy to get out of hand:)

[dan levington]

I think Dan this is another generalisation. If you look at the number of posts on the hobby ie, budgies, judging, etc you will see they far outway the (bickering) posts as you call them. Surely we have the right to reply if something is written we feel unfair?

I'm not getting involved

[Mick Freakley]

I'm not getting involved

Well it looked like ya were;)

[Barrie Shutt]

Please answer at least one of my questions Barrie, it is only good manners

you get use to this mick , some of my questions are never answered,don't jump i never said yours.

is she on the forum , i don't know but then why would i get a message like that? COULD SHE BE A GUEST. i remember a member who i PMd that had a similair problem in the same area, i am waiting to see if he knows this valerie.

did i say you ignored ? i meant should we ignore these negative posts.

[Mick Freakley]

you get use to this mick , some of my questions are never answered,don't jump i never said yours.

is she on the forum , i don't know but then why would i get a message like that? COULD SHE BE A GUEST. i remember a member who i PMd that had a similair problem in the same area, i am waiting to see if he knows this valerie.

did i say you ignored ? i meant should we ignore these negative posts.

It would help if you took as much time to read my questions as I take to read yours, also if you accompanied your asnwer with the question, that way we can see your reply without having to go back a number of posts. You did say I ignored folk, and I am glad you have corrected your mistake.

Barrie, have you actually corresponded with this person yet?

[Barrie Shutt]

It would help if you took as much time to read my questions as I take to read yours, also if you accompanied your asnwer with the question, that way we can see your reply without having to go back a number of posts. You did say I ignored folk, and I am glad you have corrected your mistake.

Barrie, have you actually corresponded with this person yet?

i have contacted one of our members that had the same problems with clubs in that area,i have asked this member if he knows her and to get in touch.

the club secretarys phone is on busy all day.

i have no e-mail address but requested via my web site that she contacts me.

one society member i did contact does not know this lady.

done my best.

[Simon Devaney]

Originally Posted by Barrie Shutt
why does simon think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders?

Still waiting for a reply Barrie

Can you please explain where and why i think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders:confused:

[Barrie Shutt]

Still waiting for a reply Barrie

Can you please explain where and why i think all beginners and ladies are pet breeders:confused:

simon don't worry about it i also do not get replies to all of my questions .

we will have a crack at donny next year:)

[Simon Devaney]

simon don't worry about it i also do not get replies to all of my questions .

we will have a crack at donny next year:)

Barrie, please answer the question

[Barrie Shutt]

Barrie, please answer the question

my feelings were in several of your posts over many weeks that you were anti pet birds which in most cases were lady owners,if i read these wrong as is easy to do then i am man enough to say sorry.

[Simon Devaney]

my feelings were in several of your posts over many weeks that you were anti pet birds which in most cases were lady owners,if i read these wrong as is easy to do then i am man enough to say sorry.

Barrie, I am not against pet birds at all or their owners male or female, please point me in the direction of where i was anti pet birds/owners so that we can clear this up

[kathy]

Kathy, you honestly have not got a clue what the exhibition side of the hobby is like have you:(


So if I have offended, then why the start of the thread. I thought we could all be on the lounge to express what we feel about stuff that "DOES" go on in the world. And all forums have good and bad people. Some good breeders and some bad. Some good exhibitioners and some bad. I do not know who really I talk to no matter how nice they come across. I get a good idea though of certain people who just do not like anyones opinion but their own. Which then makes me wonder!! But I mean from the beginning of the thread, animals as a whole. From what I have seen growing up , I have a very good reason to state what I feel. Too be honest, it would be so much easier if I cared not a single bit then it would not hurt. BUT I DO CARE. So Simon, tough !

[Mick Freakley]

Kathy, how can you make a generalisation like this. Can you please explain what you base this generalisation on. Do you realy think only pet ownners care for their birds, how much are they now, a fiver. Exhibition budgerigars are cared for like you would not imagine. I find your post very offensive and would ask you to explain yourself properly, without all this emotive rubbish. By the way, I have never exported a bird in my life.

Kathy, Did youu miss my post?

[Dan Maddocks]

So if I have offended, then why the start of the thread. I thought we could all be on the lounge to express what we feel about stuff that "DOES" go on in the world. And all forums have good and bad people. Some good breeders and some bad. Some good exhibitioners and some bad. I do not know who really I talk to no matter how nice they come across. I get a good idea though of certain people who just do not like anyones opinion but their own. Which then makes me wonder!! But I mean from the beginning of the thread, animals as a whole. From what I have seen growing up , I have a very good reason to state what I feel. Too be honest, it would be so much easier if I cared not a single bit then it would not hurt. BUT I DO CARE. So Simon, tough !


Exhibition birds in general(not saying there isnt any dodgey folk) are treated better then a single pet budgie in a cage, they are fed on the best diet, not the crap from pet shops, vitamins etc etc, you dont know anything about show birds, I dont stick my nose into your pet stuff do I

[Mick Freakley]

I have just been very reliably informed that the person concerned had more help than any other member in the history of Leeds BS. I have also been told why she is now not welcome, but I am not prepared to post why, you can ask all you like, surfice to say that the Officers and Members of this society offered the helping hand way beyond the call of duty. As I said Barrie, it would have been better to get both sides of the story before going public. You may have been investigating this all day, It took me one phone call, left a message and just received a reply, to which I am most gratefull. It appears Leeds BS bent over backwards to assist this person as I would have expected. Well done Guys and Gal's;)

[Ed Freel]

My Birds are spoilt rotten
My Dog is spoilt rotten

I have never bred for money

The cages are cleaned every day

The avairy is cleaned every day

The Wife has had me install a speaker from the C D system so they can have music

My Birds are treat better than me

My wife even feeds the wild birds

Im take offence at being generalised

[Lorna & Alan]

You have been given the wrong impression of the club side of the hobby by someone trying to cause trouble between the two factions to gain popularity for himself from the pet keepers, for whatever reason that is you will have to ask him that yourself maybe this is the reason why he is a member of a dying club

Please go along to your local club as I am sure you will find it the total opposite to what picture has been painted and maybe one day you might just win that rosette that we are all desperate to get our hands on

Simon, you asked the question where did you use me as a pawn. The quote above was totally not applicable to my feelings on the matter at all in fact your impression - not mine. I had not been given the wrong impression by Barrie Shutts posts and do not wish to be involved in that sort of slanging match thats all. With respect, I speak for myself at all times without loyalty to any camp,gang side or whatever and am perfectly able to voice my opinion. No way did Barries post ever come close to putting me off going to my local club as you can read I always stated I was going and would see for myself- simply said I was apprehensive about it. I felt misrepresented by your above post and therefore used as a tool, pawn whatever in your disagreement against someone else. Hope I have made this clear.

[Simon Devaney]

Simon, you asked the question where did you use me as a pawn. The quote above was totally not applicable to my feelings on the matter at all in fact your impression - not mine. I had not been given the wrong impression by Barrie Shutts posts and do not wish to be involved in that sort of slanging match thats all. With respect, I speak for myself at all times without loyalty to any camp,gang side or whatever and am perfectly able to voice my opinion. No way did Barries post ever come close to putting me off going to my local club as you can read I always stated I was going and would see for myself- simply said I was apprehensive about it. I felt misrepresented by your above post and therefore used as a tool, pawn whatever in your disagreement against someone else. Hope I have made this clear.

Good luck...............;)

[t0k3r]

I have just been very reliably informed that the person concerned had more help than any other member in the history of Leeds BS. I have also been told why she is now not welcome, but I am not prepared to post why, you can ask all you like, surfice to say that the Officers and Members of this society offered the helping hand way beyond the call of duty. As I said Barrie, it would have been better to get both sides of the story before going public. You may have been investigating this all day, It took me one phone call, left a message and just received a reply, to which I am most gratefull. It appears Leeds BS bent over backwards to assist this person as I would have expected. Well done Guys and Gal's;)

"Thank you Keri, Barrie likes to think he knows someting we dont, maybe it helps him feel superior" ;)

[Mick Freakley]

Any comments now Barrie, Leeds BS bent over backwards for this person, maybe you would like to commend them on their actions.

[Barrie Shutt]

Any comments now Barrie, Leeds BS bent over backwards for this person, maybe you would like to commend them on their actions.

well done mick on your one call,i made several, did i get the wrong number mick? would you pm me the correct one.

well done leeds for bending over backwards and i did try to keep your name out of it until i got both sides of the story.

mick you asked why i did not get both sides of the story,did you and if yes can i have a contact for the lady please? i do not wish her to involve me about something i am not aware of.

[Barrie Shutt]

"Thank you Keri, Barrie likes to think he knows someting we dont, maybe it helps him feel superior" ;)

thank you tok3r barrie trys to help everyone;)

[Mick Freakley]

well done mick on your one call,i made several, did i get the wrong number mick? would you pm me the correct one.

well done leeds for bending over backwards and i did try to keep your name out of it until i got both sides of the story.

mick you asked why i did not get both sides of the story,did you and if yes can i have a contact for the lady please? i do not wish her to involve me about something i am not aware of.

End of Barrie as far as I am concerned, I would ask you to maybe think before you post emotive threads.

[Mick Freakley]

Kathy, how can you make a generalisation like this. Can you please explain what you base this generalisation on. Do you realy think only pet ownners care for their birds, how much are they now, a fiver. Exhibition budgerigars are cared for like you would not imagine. I find your post very offensive and would ask you to explain yourself properly, without all this emotive rubbish. By the way, I have never exported a bird in my life.

Kathy, I see you are on line, have you deliberately chose not to answer my post or have you just missed it? I would like a reply one way or another.

[kathy]

Please read my message again. Yopu will see I mean it as a whole, ( all animals including birds) I should have not been on that link which I thought was The Lounge which I have just realised that it is not. It was to do with all animals and people as a whole. Good and bad on all forums

But anyway, I am free to speak my mind on the lounge. I Just apologise it was not the lounge though. But I will not be bullied by big big boys nor young kids thinking they know it all. ( I know you ent a kid so I dont mean you as a young kid).

[Simon Devaney]

Kathy

Could you please point us in the direction of the young kid that thinks he/she knows it all

[kathy]

A number on here at the moment. Noticed for months now. Also I am not getting into what I feel you and Mick are up to,, so talk to the hand,,,, I ent gonna say any more on this link,

[Simon Devaney]

A number on here at the moment. Noticed for months now. Also I am not getting into what I feel you and Mick are up to,, so talk to the hand,,,, I ent gonna say any more on this link,

As far as I am aware I have no connection to Mick other than purchasing a couple of grey green cocks from him and his partner earlier in the season:confused:

Please can you explain what it is that is bothering you?

[Mick Freakley]

A number on here at the moment. Noticed for months now. Also I am not getting into what I feel you and Mick are up to,, so talk to the hand,,,, I ent gonna say any more on this link,

Simon, she is a wind up merchant and best left alone, I find it very difficult to have a conversation with someone with only one brain cell, it seems she is content on painting a bad picture of the exhibition side of the hobby, something she knows very little about, if anything at all. As far as I am concerned best ignored, the only time i will reply to her is when she choses to insult me again.

[Matt Wetton]

Fisty cuffs:p leave the handbags at home:D

[Mick Freakley]

Fisty cuffs:p leave the handbags at home:D

Is that the best you got to offer Matt:(

[Matt Wetton]

lol to be hounest i dont no why i said it just making more posts loool ill post about anything :D

[Kev & Jo Addison]

Merry Christmas eveyone make up and get a mince pie

[redrum]

Is that the best you got to offer Matt:(

it all seems to be a witch hunt by you mick and simon against barrie im nuetral in all this but thats the way it looks to me

[Simon Devaney]

You don’t sound Neutral coming out with comments like that, How come there has been no bitterness on the forum’s for over a week and then once again one of Barrie’s buddies attempts to open old wounds, then after stirring the shite once again you will probably crawl back into the shaddows:confused:

I have made the request to Barrie on numerous occasions and now I am asking you, please highlight the offending post's

[Barrie Shutt]

You don’t sound Neutral coming out with comments like that, How come there has been no bitterness on the forum’s for over a week and then once again one of Barrie’s buddies attempts to open old wounds, then after stirring the shite once again you will probably crawl back into the shaddows:confused:

I have made the request to Barrie on numerous occasions and now I am asking you, please highlight the offending post's

not one of barrie's buddies Simon.

[Simon Devaney]

not one of barrie's buddies Simon.

Intent on opening up old wounds though for some reason:confused:

Let’s hope that this time He/She back's up these accusations with hard evidence

[Scott]

I think this has been cleared up off forum by the sounds of it

End of Barrie as far as I am concerned